Yesterday I spent quite a bit of time thinking about the Pedigree Chart that James Sanders included in his book. The beginning four generations can be put together from the available records and ending generations coming down from Robert Siderfin and Elizabeth (Question) Siderfin also flow quite well with a few limitations but that central fifth generation has always struck me as somewhat peculiar. I think yesterday I really concentrated on the property attached to their names for the first time now that I have looked so completely at the first four generations.
Clearly, John Siderfin (Robert 4, Robert 3, William 2, John 1) found on the Protestation Returns at Selworthy in 1641 but not paying a Somerset Lay Subsidy in 1642 at Selworthy is likely still in Selworthy as he doesn’t appear anywhere else except for the baptism of a first child for a John Siderfin at Wootton Courtney (notably Thomasine, at this point one remembers as the known mother of Robert Siderfin who was baptized 1658 at Selworthy, was buried at Wootton Courtney so was perhaps her home parish). I have not been able to identify a marriage for John and Thomasine and Thomasine is a common forename in this Somerset area in this time frame. John 5 (Robert 4, Robert 3, William 2, John 1) was the younger son of Robert baptized in 1619 at Minehead and probably did not inherit anything from his father Robert other than a good education perhaps – this line does become schoolmasters in the generations to follow. Checking the Discovery Catalogue at the Archives of the United Kingdom does not reveal any material for a John Siderfin in this time frame (no property interactions). At this point in time the family drops into the background as they are not landowners and known to be schoolmasters at Selworthy.
Looking then at the Pedigree Chart:
This is one of the images that I took when we visited the Allen County Public Library in Illinois, USA in 2009. The opportunity to do so was something we did not wish to miss and I was still doing the Siderfin one name study and knew that there was a copy of James Sanders book at this library. I was not disappointed. Edward had a lot of Kipp material that he wanted to look at there and was hopeful that I would help with that I can remember and I did. My list was quite short since most of my families were recently in England so not really much material on my lines but there were a couple of books that I wanted to photograph. We spent four days in that library and really did glean a lot of interesting material for Edward and for myself. We went back again several years later and again acquired some interesting material. Definitely a library that should not be missed if the opportunity comes by.
The Chart can be a little more clearly seen in this image than most of the other images that I have acquired. One is left to surmise that copies of this chart were hand formed and then bound in with the book. The top line of the chart on the left are the children of the Worth-Siderfin marriage in the William-Line (William 4, Robert 3, William 2, John 1). That is pretty much all that you see of this line and I had not really concentrated on the property that was mentioned in the next large line directly below the Worth-Siderfin children. One notes that Robert married to Joanna Kittener is of East Lynch (Joanna is of Wotton Courtney) passing by John and Maria Winter and looking at Walter said to be of Timberscombe married to Alice Quirke of Minehead. Thinking back to Robert 5 (William 4, Robert 3, William 2, John 1) and that Robert was on the Protestation Return at Timberscombe along with his son Robert. The Somerset Subsidy of 1642 also listed these two Roberts at Timberscombe. However, on this chart the Robert married to Joanna Kittener is listed as the son of a John Siderfin baptized 1656 at Wootton Courtney and his wife Mary. Finally lights are going on and I am thinking to myself what if James Sanders is mistaken and this is the second son of Robert at Timberscombe identified in his grandmother's will as John? For Robert married to Joanna Kittener to be at East Lynch he really needs to be descendant of the William-Line according to the usual practice of primogeniture and the passing of property from one generation to the next. Now John is the younger son but what if Robert 5 decided to split his property between his two sons - unusual but certainly did occur. Timberscombe was the larger property so East Lynch going to John sounds reasonable much more reasonable than it suddenly being owned by a descendant of the Robert - Line (namely Robert 4 (Robert 3, William 2, John 1) Robert 4 was generally found at Minehead and Wootton Courtney and his sons Robert 5 at Minehead/Wootton Courtney on any records and John 5 at Selworthy).
One could wish for clearer images but not having an original copy of the book to take better closeup photos this has to suffice. Looking at this crop/enlargement of the left hand side of the chart above one notes the beginning of this line with John of Wootton Courty b about 1614 which doesn't work for the line that it actually goes back to namely Robert 4 (Robert 3, William 2, John 1). That John was baptized at Minehead in 1619. I actually conclude in my mind at this point that this John does not exist. There isn't a John baptized in 1614 at Wootton Courtney and to the best of my knowledge in 1614 this line is at Luxborough and Minehead principally. Looking up in Ancestry at the original Wootton Courtney registers which commence in 1558. The first mention of Siderfin in Wootton Courtney is Thomas Siderfin JP in the course of his duties as Justice of the Peace (Thomas 4, Robert 3, William 2, John 1). I did note the lack of baptisms and burials with most records in the earliest pages being banns and marriages. I do have the fiche for Wootton Courtney and Stoate's transcriptions. Whilst looking at these records on Ancestry I did note that individuals from Timberscombe did come to Wootton Courtney for marriages and as I looked through the fiche I discovered that the first Siderfin entry was John Siderfin son of John baptized 15 Jul 1656 (no entries prior to that date for Siderfin in baptisms and these registers started in 1558). Mary Syderfin is next 26 Jun 1714 daughter of John Siderfin junior and Joan. Baptisms for the children of this children continue over the next years. Most baptisms were at Luxborough in those early years with the change coming after the Commonwealth under Oliver Cromwell when all births were required to be registered at the secular office of a particular parish. However, a number of individuals continued to baptize their children at Church but did tend to be the more obscure parishes. Eventually, before publishing I will look at the original parish registers on fiche just to verify but want to have all my records in a file so that I do not miss any. I continue with my suspicion that this John baptized at Wootton Courtney in 1656 was actually the son of John 6 (Robert 5, William 4, Robert 3, William 2, John 1). The dates for this grouping John 6 to John 1 would look like circa 1630s, 1611, 1585, 1540s, 1510s, 1400s. A reasonable range of dates for these generations.
Looking at the arrangement that James Sanders has created would be John baptized at Wootton Courtney in 1656 and the son of John 5, Robert 4, Robert 3, William 2, John 1). The dates for this grouping would be 1619 (James Sanders has 1614), 1587, 1540s, 1510, 1400s. Not impossible John would have only been 42 (James Sanders 1614) or 37 (actual baptism for this John). Both scenarios work time wise. The only reason for the change is the presence of a Robert Siderfin married to Joanna Kittener at East Lynch which traditionally in this Siderfin family belonged to the William-Line (William 4). William 4's son Robert senior and his grandson Robert junior are found at Timberscombe both on the Protestation Return of 1641 and the Somerset Lay Subsidy of 1642. These two Roberts are found in the records at the Archives of the UK at Timberscombe and East Lynch as these two properties were apparently in the occupation of this Siderfin line in this time frame. This younger son of Robert 5 is mentioned in his grandmother Christian (Webber) Siderfin's will written in 1644 and probated in 1648. How the younger son acquired East Lynch I will now go back into the Records held by the Archives of the United Kingdom and see if there are any clues. I do know they exist for Robert Siderfin at Timberscombe and East Lynch just from memory but was John mentioned and I will obtain that answer. John 6 (Robert 5, William 4, Robert 3, William 2, John 1) has named his son Robert and this baptism exists 15 Dec 1588 at Selworthy when his father would have been 30 years of age with his mother being an unknown Mary. That will be my next followup after checking out the Archives material. John Siderfin as a stand alone search name does not produce any results other than those already known from the 1500s. East Lynch does have a number of interesting records over a long time period but the Siderfin name does not form part of the search function. I will look at British History Online next. No information on East Lynch as a stand alone area in Somerset in British History Online. Genuki was my next choice and East Lynch does not have its own page but Timberscombe does. Checking out this website and then went to a search for East Lynch Farm and it is recorded as being at Selworthy with a history from post medieval to modern - 1540 AD to the present. East Lynch farm appears to be closer to Selworthy than Timberscombe but that doesn't affect who occupied it in the late 1600s into the 1700s. It does account for baptisms being celebrated at Selworthy though or Wootton Courtney which lies between Selworthy and Timberscombe. Having done this interesting survey I will, for the moment, go with the idea that the Robert at East Lynch, baptized at Selworthy, son of John and Mary (unknown) Siderfin is descendant of the William 4 line.
There are problems with this argument perhaps as Robert Siderfin at East Lynch could simply have picked up the lease as the actual ownership can not be determined from afar one would need to go through the land records. But given the status of John 5 (Robert 4, Robert 3, William 2, John 1) at Selworthy as a schoolmaster it is unlikely that he would have had the financial ability to pick up the lease as it does appear to be a substantial property. Plus Thomasine names Robert Siderfin at East Lynch as a cousin rather than a sibling-in-law in her will abstract. So attaching Robert at East Lynch to the William-Line makes a lot of sense (and he would be the son of a cousin in that case).
I think the next direction to go in is this marriage of a John Siderfin and Mary (unknown) parents of Robert at East Lynch in the latter part of the 1600s. Information available on James Sanders Pedigree Chart for John b 1656 and for Mary b 1648 and died 1717. Checking out the text of James Sanders for any references to these two individuals that he has added to the book.
1717. In Wootton Courtney church, on a stone in the floor of the nave: - Here lyeth the body of Mary, the wife of John Siderfin, of this Parish, who departed this life Oct. 3rd, 1717, aged 69 years.
I also found an item which likely directed James Sanders towards the idea that this John was descendant of the Robert 4 line. It is entitled by James Sanders as Freeholders in Selworthy: Now, besides the rector in right of his glebe, the only freeholders left in the parish other than the owner of the three manors, are the Clarke and Stoate families. The Clarkes, as already stated, have for a long period lived on their property at West Lynch (while a branch of their family have also occupied East Lynch) and have for many generations taken a leading and honourable part in the affairs of the valley. The Stoates, too, have been connected with the parish for a great number of years. The last of the Selworthy branch of the family, old "Counsellor Stoate," as he was always called, lived at Allerford and must have been somewhat of a character. He was also a man of considerable substance. Another old family connected with the parish is that of Siderfin. This family is probably an offshoot of the family of Siderfin of Croydon, in the parish of Timberscombe, a family of some importance in our district in the seventeenth century.
The reference to Siderfin of Croydon is the Thomas 4 line and no ideas on why this might direct James Sanders towards the Robert 4 line for John Siderfin baptized 1656 at Wootton Courtney. Somewhat confusing perhaps to refer to the Siderfin family at Croydon at this point in time but is perhaps just linking all the Siderfin families together. The Clarke family married into the Siderfin family in 1787 with the marriage of John Siderfin and Sarah Clarke at Selworthy. John was the son of Robert Siderfin and Grace (Kent) Siderfin (my 4x great grandparents). At this point in time with Robert Siderfin at East Lynch dying without heirs in 1715 the land may have reverted back in the family although one would have expected it to go to the Worth-Siderfin descendants it became the property of the Clarke family (they could have purchased it for sure or leased it). Only by doing an extensive land search at Taunton could one determine that. But at this point in time (late 1700s) it does appear that the land now belongs to the Clarke family as James Sanders mentions in his "Freeholders in Selworthy" section. He is writing this in the early 1900s and this paragraph refers to that moment in time more than 100 years after the marriage of John Siderfin and Sarah Clarke 4 Jun 1787 at Selworthy. There will be more information on this John Siderfin and East Lynch as we reach his generation.
Back to the marriage of John Siderfin and Mary (unknown) now that I have gleaned any information from James Sander's text on this couple. Along with this look at the registers, I will alter my one name study Legacy File to reflect these changes. I do begin to feel as if I am more in tune now with this descent in the Siderfin lines. That I may need to read all of these parish registers will be an interesting adventure but for the moment I will use the transcriptions as they are certainly very well done; I do not think I have ever really found any errors in the transcriptions.
To be continued but must do breakfast! Below this line are yesterdays thoughts being revised as I contemplate the chart of James Sanders and the available records.
There is always the possibility since the baptism of William possible son of the same Robert 5 (Robert 4, Robert 3, William 2, John 1) is missing that this John baptized at Wootton Courtney in 1556 died young and the baptisms of the two children of Robert (Robert 4, Robert 3, William 2, John 1) are simply missing. Robert being the eldest son though (baptized in 1616) his sons would have inherited any property from Robert their father. John (likely father of Robert b 1658 in Selworthy) does not appear to have received any property but rather an education as we see that this line became schoolmasters in the Selworthy area for a number of generations.
I am going with James Sanders on the idea that Robert (baptized 15 Dec 1688 at Selworthy, buried 7 Mar 1731, will probated 1788) at East Lynch and Walter (buried 14 Mar 1731, Selworthy) at Timberscombe are siblings although he does attach them to a John Siderfin born 1656 and Mary (unknown). I do have another thought in this regard that perhaps these two sons belong in the William Line given that William’s eldest son Robert 5 (William 4, Robert 3, William 2, John 1) was at East Lynch and Timberscombe. William’s wife Christian (Webber) Siderfin in her will does mention that Robert’s children were: Robert, Wilmot and John which is eerily reminiscent of the three children of Robert 4 (Robert 3, William 2, John 1) with Wilmot baptized 1614, Robert 1616 and John 1619 at Minehead. But they can not be the same children as Robert 4 was baptized in 1611. Interesting the name similarity of course. If indeed these children were the children of this John 5 and Robert 5 died childless than his younger brother could have inherited the property at East Lynch and Timberscombe. But I leave those thoughts for the next revision of this book. This would solve the query about the John Siderfin baptized at Wootton Courtney in 1656 son of John perhaps as the son of Robert 4. Following the money does work often enough but I do need to do more work on the land records and so it is perhaps best to go with the thinking of James Sanders for the moment and wait until I get to the land records since change is easily done.
James Sander includes the following information in his book:
[ In the Carhampton Hundred Benevolence granted, Charles II., 1662 :
Robert Syderfin Minehead 2s 6d
Robert Syderfin Timberscombe 5s 0d
Wm. Syderfin Luxborough 10s 0d
Thos. Syderfin Luxborough 10s 0d
[ Eastern Division. - Thomas Syderfin, of Luxborough, Esq., Barrister of Law, do the present to his Magestie 20s in hand paid.]
To keep with the likely placement Robert 4 (Robert 3, William 2, John 1) at Minehead, Robert 5 (William 4, Robert 3, William 2, John 1) at Timberscombe, William 5 (William 4, Robert 3, William 2, John 1) at Luxborough, and Thomas 4 (Robert 3, William 2, John 1) at Luxborough. This particular tax was applied during the reign of Charles II (they would have been too young at that time). It does account for the only living son of Robert 3 – Thomas 4 at Luxborough, William 4’s sons Robert 5 and William 5 at Timberscombe and Luxborough respectively and Robert 4’s son Robert 5 at Minehead. John 5 is excluded because he is not recorded as having any property in Selworthy or elsewhere thus far
The will of Augustine Question does refer to his son in law Robert Siderfin and daughter Elizabeth (Question) Siderfin and his grandchildren which matches Thomasine’s son Robert and grandchildren mentioned in the will of Thomasine. This will be presented in full in the next generation. Robert’s and Elizabeth’s eldest son was Robert and their second son was John and the third son Augustine which is rather interesting (since John and Augustine could have been the parents of Robert and Elizabeth respectively (Augustine Question certainly was)).
James Sanders does omit the grandchildren mentioned by Christian (Webber) Siderfin widow of William 4 in his chart and writeup. He used only an abstract of Christian’s will which is a mystery.